Sunday, July 24, 2016

Love Triangle Dynamics in the Force Awakens [Kylo Ren]

Hello, all! Welcome to Part II of The Force Awakens installation of "Love Triangle Dynamics". If you haven't read Part I, I suggest you do. If you have, welcome back! Because I expect less hateful people to bother reading this post, it will feature a return of the more light-hearted/sarcastic writing and pictures. Maybe we can have nice things? Only one way to find out!
[For you stubborn cusses who don't want to read Part I, I'll go over the pertinent analytic explanations here before we dive into it. Return readers, feel free to skip! ]

Pertinent Analytic Explanations for Stubborn Cusses
It is a truth of storytelling, for as long as it has existed, that stories fall into patterns (called archetypes/tropes/patterning etc.). The pattern we're dealing with for this post is the "Good Guy, Bad Guy, and Female in a love triangle". I am not writing that there is a love triangle at work in The Force Awakens, merely that the pattern is seen in the characterization of three of the characters. The purpose of these posts is to explore that pattern/how the characters fit.
For this post, we're going off the assumption that 'art is deliberate', meaning, The Force Awakens was written, costumed, lit, acted, etc. etc. on purpose, to create an experience for the audience, and that this purposefulness includes the use of archetypes/tropes/patterns.
I'll be using a mix of two types of literary criticism to break this down--New Criticism--involves intensive dissection of the story as far as internal consistency, cause and effect, etc. Feminist Criticism--rather than focusing on how "deserving" or "undeserving" the male characters in the dynamic are, I will instead be looking at how their actions fit the pattern/affect the heroine, making her--the protagonist--the center of it all (as it should be).
The focus of today's post is the Bad Guy (BG), and his characterization usually fits the following pattern:
  • Bad Guy
    • Usually driven by self hatred/revenge/passion/some strong "dark" emotion (rather than image, a desire to be 'good', or just "eviiiil")
    • Despite being "Bad", BG is honest with the heroine
      • BG usually tells the heroine important-but-unpleasant information that he feels she ought to know
      • BG is very up-front about their dark secret/past. They openly admit to misdeeds and often share their darkest secret--called The Confession--with the heroine (and only her).
    • BG does not physically harm the heroine
      • One of the most obvious actions of a BG is the Kidnapping* of the heroine. This goes back to "Hades and Persephone" (and probably further).
      • During this event, the BG goes out of his way to put the heroine at ease/ensure her safety
    • BG, when pressed into a me-or-her situation, rarely chooses 0 or 100, but sits somewhere in the middle, opting for suffering for himself in order to benefit the heroine.
*A Literary Note on the All-Important Kidnapping™
In my personal opinion, the easiest way to recognize if a male character fits the Bad Guy in a love triangle dynamic is to see if the Kidnapping™ occurs in the story.
Usually, one of the first interactions between the BG and the protagonist is the Kidnapping™. It's  this event that starts everything else off--it creates the situation for them to talk to each other in the first place; this is where they open their characteristically honest dialogue, and this is usually when and where "the Confession™" happens.
Though the BG/GG love triangle has been written sans kidnapping before (for example, in Jane Eyre, Jane comes across Rochester because she works for him, and their relationship goes from there), it rather difficult to do. When characters as different as BG and protagonist exist, one can twist the plot to force them to meet and be uncharacteristically open with one another (which comes off as forcing the plot), or one can simply have BG give in to his already-bad nature and Kidnap™ the protagonist--thus harkening the audience back to thousands of years of stories using this very archetype.
Another important aspect of the Kidnapping™ is how it is done. Not every villain who kidnaps a girl is a BG. When the love-triangle dynamic is in play, BG controls the space, but not the person. The kidnapping exists as a forced, "Hey, you have to be here, now, and we will talk." The BG does not control what the protagonist says or does in this space; this is usually where we get the declarations, "You're a monster!"/"I hate you!" from the protagonist which the BG shrugs off (because he's honest/not image-motivated). This is also the scene that usually allows the protagonist to strike some sort of blow against the BG--physical or emotional (sometimes both)--that spurs their furthered relationship/interest.
Point being, it's a plot device used to make the story go forward, and it should not be treated as the equivalent of real-world kidnap. People get hurt and die as a result of real-world kidnappings. Heroines never die (and are very seldom injured) when kidnapped by the BG in a love triangle dynamic.
The Dissection: Kylo Ren and How He Fits
Kylo as Villain
He wears all black! He's the disgraced son of Han Solo and Leia! He gets his own doomful theme song! He has a mask that he never takes off and is prone to furious rages. He's introduced in a terrifying way, leading an attack on a village. He insults old men! He says things like, "I'll show you the Dark Side"! He stops a blaster with his mind! He makes one hell of an entrance, and for the first scenes, he's little more than a scary figure, a true villain.
Oooh, badass! And terrifying.
Exposition: Kylo Ren's Drive
As the Great George Lucas himself has said, "You can't have a monster turning into a monster. That's not a story." Bad guys don't just wake up one morning and say, "I feel like devoting my life to eviiiiil." They have something driving it. The same is true for Kylo. Because we don't see his face or hear his real voice for the longest time, most of his characterization comes through his body language, actions, and word choice. 
Intro Scene
  • In this scene, we see that Kylo is motivated (and evil!) to a point. Once he kills Lor San Tekka, he sorta disengages
  • Remember how he force-sensed Finn's betrayal and just walked away?
Huh. Well, someone won't be winning the Employee of the Month Award anytime soon.
    • Weird, right? If he was just a cold-to-the-core villain, he would have killed Finn right there. 
      • He wouldn't even have to walk over to him 
      • He could just force-crush Finn's head
      • But he doesn't
      • He doesn't even mention it to Finn's superiors, as Phasma later says Finn helping Poe escape was his "first offense"
After Poe's Interrogation
  • Speaking of winning no workplace awards, after Kylo forces-interrogates Poe, Kylo tells Hux the map is in a droid on Jakku 
    • Hux is thirsting to work as a team, saying, "We'll soon have it," 
    • but Kylo responds with, "I'll leave that to you," 
    • You know. He's busy. He's got stuff to do. Like wash his hair. Or learn how to crochet. Point being, he can't be bothered. Hm. 
Dealing with Finn and Poe's Escape
  • When the baddies learn about Finn and Poe's escape, Kylo pops up to reveal that yeah, not only did he totally notice Finn in the first scene, he knows exactly who he is.
    • He had the information all along (or else looked it up later); he just didn't choose to share
    • He's not overly concerned about what this development means vis-a-vis BB-8, because after that, he just....leaves again, letting Phasma and Hux handle it
    • He doesn't care Finn is a traitor (more on this later)
    • Doesn't care the droid search is going to be more difficult 
    • He just...goes off. Maybe to nap? (Alright, alright; he wasn't napping. He was looking at maps).
#findyourowndroid #huxsux
Backstory
Whenever a sad backstory is provided for a villain, it is meant to humanize them. If their background was left a blank (like Darth Vader's was originally), they're a one-note sort of villainous badass we're not supposed to feel much for. However, backstory creates pathos ("a quality evoking pity or sadness"). As BGs are meant to be complex/interesting, a sad backstory is a must.
  • Kylo Ren, formally Ben Solo, is the child of Leia Organa and Han Solo
    • Leia blames herself partially for Ben's descent into the dark side, "I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him." The verbs are important here:
      • "sent him away" implies he didn't want to go, otherwise it would be, "I never should have let him go"
      • "lost him" implies she 'had' him in the first place, further pinning down this separation as a turning point
    • We see Han is detached from Kylo/ready to cut him off, needing to be reminded "you're his father"
    • Kylo says Han was a disappointing father
  • Kylo was shipped off to Luke to train to "get the Vader out of him" (paraphrasing)
    • Even when he was young, his parents were scared he would turn out bad because of his grandpa. 
      • He grew up his whole life with his parents weighing his actions 
      • "Is it, because, you know, he's a bratty 2-year-old, or is it because he's secretly evil?"
    • Leia says, "...It was Snoke. He seduced our son to the dark side," implying Snoke was luring young Solo to the dark side since he was 'sent away' when he was young
  • Discussion with Vader's helmet
    • He emphasizes family ties--"grandfather"--when he talks to Darth Vader's helmet. This fits neatly with the rejection he apparently felt from his parents while growing up
    • He feels the "pull" of the light, but doesn't want to follow it because--
    • He wants to finish what Vader started. [Which, from what I remember, was "bringing balance to the force", but that's none of my business]
Rising Action: Honesty/the Kidnapping/Confession/etc. (BG characterization noted in [])
Takodana
  • Kylo is in charge of an attack. Goals--to wipe out any resistance and to get that darn droid.
#doingmyjob #majestic
    • He's doing his typical battle-field stalk, and all is going as planned when this happens:
"Sir, the droid was spotted heading west."
"Sucks 2 suck, fam. I hope you packed your hiking boots. #yoloswa--"
"--With a girl."
"I feel a sudden, uncontrollable urge to commune with nature. Alone."
    • He leaves the battlefield to go traipsing into the woods alone.
      • When he finds Rey, he immediately engages (unlike with Poe, "Who talks first?"), betraying his curiosity and interest [Murky Motivations]
    • The closest to a lie we get from Kylo to Rey is "the girl I've heard so much about", when no, no, not really. You haven't heard jack, Kylo. You've heard she exists. That's about it. However, the line is also easy to read as sarcasm. [Honesty?]
#Honestly betraying my interest with an elevator-look
  • the Kidnapping™ occurs. Two storm troopers appear, and Kylo makes a snap decision:
"Forget the droid. We have what we need."

  • Is that a princess carry, reader? Also known as a "bridal" carry? Why, yes. Yes, it is. 
    • Why didn't he hand her over to the storm troopers to carry? He is kinda their boss. Their job is to make his life easier (ie: carry things, deal with prisoners--like how it happened with Poe) 
    • If he wasn't going to trust her with them, why didn't he send them after BB-8, just to be sure?
    • Why didn't he carry her in a more efficient way? Like over his shoulder? Or with the force? [Murky Motivations/Kidnapping™]
#themgains #theworldismygym
  • Joking aside, Kylo remains in physical contact with Rey, even though it isn't necessary
    • He doesn't trust her to his lackeys, because
      • .....what? Girl's knocked out. She's not going to run away.
      • I dunno. They're not as badass as him, and he's pretty invested in her. We also have to take into account how he decides he's going to carry her and how this adds to his decision not to hand Rey over. The only thing I can think of is that he's making sure nothing goes awry. He's not about to just accidentally drop her. He's not going to be shot by some doofus and lose Rey. He's not hourly. [Safety of Protagonist during Kidnapping™]
The Interrogation
  • Kylo maintains personal involvement and contact during the interrogation
    • When Poe was captured, he was handed over to some torturer first. We don't know how long that lasted, but long enough for him to get pretty beat up
      • Kylo only came into the picture when all other methods failed
    • But with Rey, it's Kylo and only Kylo from the beginning
      • Even though she's just a scavenger
      • Even though no one knows she's a force-user [Safety of Protagonist during Kidnapping™/Murky Motivations]
  • Kylo is no fool. He knows he's a scary guy. We've seen him use that scariness to great effect in the past against other people. He does the opposite with Rey.
Even going so far as to chance the power dynamic with stance.
    • And, shockingly, it works. When Rey wakes up, there's no panic, no anger, not even really surprise.

    • Kylo acts in a way that is meant to soothe rather than scare [Putting Protagonist at Ease]
  • While still in the inferior stance, Kylo says, "You still wanna kill me," and Rey responds, "That's what happens when you're being hunted by a creature in a mask." [Confession/Honesty]
The. mask. comes. off.
  • Kylo's mask is important.
    • It's integral to his image that he's been cultivating for God-knows-how-long
    • We don't see him out of it before this--art is deliberate
    • It's part of him, but as soon as Rey expresses dissatisfaction with it, off it comes.
    • Why? Because he wants her to see him. The real him. The him he doesn't show to everyone else. Aha, Confession. [Putting Protagonist at Ease/Confession]
Hey, Girl.
    • It's not half-hearted, either. He stands still and lets her take a good, long look (including her own elevator gaze). He allows her to cross his boundaries. It's a sort of show-and-tell. [Confession]
    • (Also note where he puts the helmet...in the bowl of the ashes of his enemies...hm. Why there? [Murky Motivations])
  • The Discussion
    • Though he easily could have lied, Kylo tells Rey he doesn't know where her friends are, adding, "You'll be relieved to hear", showing he does this consciously [Honesty/Putting Protagonist at Ease]
    • Kylo on Han, "He would have disappointed you." (so much here)
      • There's no reason for him to tell her this.
        • He's trying to get information about a map out of her
        • Her feelings towards Han shouldn't come into it
        • His feelings towards Han shouldn't come into it
        • He's warning her from something that he thinks would cause her distress down the line [Honesty/Safety of Protagonist]
      • He says this even though it could possibly compromise his identity [Confession]
      • The verb tense "would have", can imply "won't anymore", if so:
        • He intends to keep it that way [Safety of Protagonist]
        • He feels positively about doing so [Murky Motivations]
        • If we're taking it the other way, "If you had been his child, he would have disappointed you," then Kylo is blatantly telling her who his parents are [Confession]
Confession Subversion
Subversion is the word for a subtle twist in a well-established trope or pattern. These subversions are done deliberately to signify something to the audience who are meant to recognize this side-stepping of convention. In TFA, we have a strong subversion of the Confession aspect of the BG characterization.
Typically, the Confession is made by BG freely. It's usually a simultaneous sharing of his 'darkest' secret and proof that he's not-so-bad. The heroine normally files the information away for later, passively absorbing the information when it's given. However, TFA goes against this protagonist-is-passive format (I can't wait to talk more about this in Rey's post!).
It begins in typical Confession fashion; Kylo reveals bits and pieces about himself through his words and actions. But, then.....
The Subversion
  • Rey's Confession
    • Map forgotten, Kylo starts to sift through Rey's thoughts/experiences, speaking them out loud
      • It is very rare for the Protagonist's inner workings to be revealed to the BG, especially at first.
      • Through this interaction, Kylo moves slowly, speaks softly, and responds when Rey speaks. I would use the word "attentive" for this segment.
        • We're meant to notice the conflicting imagery of the scene: it's intimate on one end and invasive on the other.
        • This is also rare. In the Confession, the BG broadcasts and the Protagonist absorbs. Here, we have a reverse-Confession where the BG is absorbing from the Protagonist.
      • Further Confession from Kylo as shown by what he notices and chooses to respond to
        • "Mmm. So lonely. So afraid to leave," he processes her feelings
        • "I see it. I see the island" A recognition of shared experience-an attempt to build intimacy [Confession/Murky Motivations]
  • She says, "get out of my head," and he backs off, albeit temporarily [Murky Motivations/Safety of the Protagonist]
And we're out of Rey's Confession and back into Kylo's with this mysterious line: 
But....what is "it"?!
  • Again, he's responding to her feelings, not ignoring or overriding them. Comforting.
    • Through his actions, body language, and words (as well as the oh-so dramatic unveiling), Kylo is telling Rey, "I'm not so bad. I'm not going to hurt you. I feel what you feel, and I understand" [Confession]
But then, further subversion. The Deep Dark Secret is revealed, but it's not Kylo who says it.
Shots fired!
  • In a neat turn-around on the "typical" Confession, Rey is the one who reveals Kylo's Deep Dark Secret.
    • I like this move by the movie-makers for several reasons:
      • It makes the whole exchange more "fair"; Kylo knows Rey's fears, and she knows his. There's a balance to their interaction.
      • It neatly demonstrates Rey's talents/strength (more on this in her post!)
      • It shows Kylo's vulnerabilities, both in his motivations and when it comes to Rey
        • It hits home his emotional connection to Grandpa Vader [Murky Motivations]
        • I also think this moment was allowed to occur; Kylo didn't have his guard up (possibly...the groundwork is there)
          • Kylo was not this relaxed around Poe; if Poe had been a force-user, I think Kylo would have successfully kept him out
          • However, Rey gets in. I think it's partially because Kylo was trying to put himself in her shoes with his "I see it" bit, so he was already open to this sort of exchange.
          • Further, when it happens, he doesn't get mad; he panics and leaves, but when we see him again, he's complimenting her "She's strong in the force...stronger than she knows,"
          • so clearly, he's not that mad about her knowing this rather important secret
That's where both the Kidnapping™ and Confession end.
The bulk of Kylo's characterization as a BG is contained in those sections. There's some in the subsequent duel scenes, but most of the emotional punch happens along with the Kidnapping™, as is typical. Since the rest isn't so dense, it won't be in bullets, but I'll keep up the [] indicators.
Climax/Falling Action/Resolution: The Duel
We've talked about the duel from Finn's side--a desperate attempt to save face and right wrongs. From Kylo's perspective, it's a different animal entirely. For starters, there are two distinct parts to the duel: the duel with Finn and the duel with Rey.
Duel with Finn--Introducing Rivalry?
Kylo's duel with Finn starts after Han is dead. There's chaos as Chewie, Finn, and Rey start shooting storm troopers and Kylo is hit. Then, Kylo's attention is drawn up to where Finn and Rey are standing,

and the screen closes in on Finn's face.
and then we get this reaction from Kylo:

It's his first angry face we see. He doesn't do this for Han. Doesn't do this when Rey throws his deepest fear in his face. This is for Finn, and Finn only. Now, what? Remember back when Finn was a traitor and Kylo didn't care at all? (Remember how Kylo himself betrayed his family? Guy ain't got a problem with treachery) What happened? Why is he mad now? Finn isn't really skilled enough to mess with Kylo's plans, and it wasn't even Finn who freed Rey; she did that herself.
The only thing that's really changed is Finn's circumstance. Before, he was by himself. Now, he is with Rey. That's why Kylo is mad. Finn is where he wants to be.
So, fast-forward to the forest. Rey is unconscious, Kylo has successfully goaded Finn, and Finn reveals he has something else Kylo wants:

The fight beings. Ultimately, Kylo beats Finn pretty easily, but we have another series of questions to answer about the fight.
  • Why does Kylo insist on fighting Finn hand-to-hand?
  • Why doesn't he grab him with the force and throw him?
  • Why doesn't he freeze him with the force?
  • Why doesn't he grab the lightsaber with the force to get it back?
  • Why doesn't he make sure Finn is dead once he's down? [Murky Motivations]
If Kylo's only goal was to be the scary badass, he would have killed Finn more quickly and more conveniently. He has something to prove, but whatever-it-is doesn't require Finn's death, only his defeat. Kylo knocks Finn down once and begins to walk away before Finn gets back up, and then the fight is on again. When Kylo knocks Finn down the final time, he punches him (rather physical for a force-user) and cuts along his spine while completing his spin, but, again, he doesn't kill him. Kylo could easily take two seconds to cut off Finn's head, but he doesn't.
I submit it's because he just doesn't care that much about Finn. The punishment for traitors is traditionally death, but he doesn't take the two seconds it would require to kill him, so that's obviously not what he cares about most. However, he does care about beating Finn, man-to-man, hand-to-hand. [Murky Motives/Possible Rivalry]
Duel with Rey--Agency
Let's start out with the apparent attitudes of Kylo and Rey going into this fight. Rey unexpectedly gets the oh-so-special Anakin-Luke-saber, but her dive into battle is not quick, nor is it enthusiastic. She just watched Kylo kill his own father, a man she admired. She heard (but didn't completely see, it seems) Finn losing his duel with Kylo. She has every reason to hate this guy. She wanted to kill him before all this, but this is her face when she gets the lightsaber:

She doesn't look angry or murderous. She's killed people before with a snarl on her face, but she looks reluctant to begin the fight here. Sure, she's scared, but she's been scared before and not looked like this. She looks reluctant, like she's fighting because she has to rather than because she wants to. Hm.
And Kylo? Well.
"Agog". "Agog" will do nicely.
They engage. The fight is heated. However, Kylo does not strike directly at Rey; his blows are mostly to the side. The closest he gets is to her feet when she's climbing up that little hill thing. Then, he has her on the cliff-side. He could easily push her off if he wanted to kill her. She's almost falling off already, but he doesn't. Instead, he offers to teach her "the ways of the force." He's not offering this out of desperation for himself--he could easily win right here. This offer is for her.
  • "You need a teacher"--impersonal fact [Honesty]
  • "I could show you the ways of the force"--offer of self/knowledge/skills [Honesty/form of Confession] (Notice he doesn't say "Dark Side")
The Agency Offer: Suffer for Protagonist
This is where Kylo tips his hand for his motivations. He's fighting Rey while not trying to kill her. He offers to teach her. The Good Guy, when in this situation, gives a 0-or-100 to the Protagonist; either she does what he wants and he stays, or she doesn't do what he wants, and he leaves. The GG is manipulative when it comes to the Protagonist and her pain, "I will cause you pain if you don't do what I want." They also pull other people into it, "everyone will die if I fail, but if I succeed, we'll all live". Kylo is not a GG, so his desperate offer turns the pain and risk on himself in typical Bad Guy fashion.
  • He isn't fighting to win.
    • He knows Rey hates him
    • He knows Rey wants to kill him. He has said as much
    • She's killed other people
    • So, if he loses, he'll probably die
  • But then, there's the offer
    • "I could show you the ways of the Force"
    • If she takes his offer, he lives
    • and he gets to stay with her
    • however, this offer is still about her
      • It's about developing her innate skills, making her stronger and more capable
      • She's already proven she can/will use the force against him/his people
        • And he wants her to get better at it
      • This offer is literally handing Rey the keys to whoop up on everybody for forever (aka: agency!!!!)
It could be all or nothing for him, but her pain doesn't come into it, only her choice. He's willing to live or die on her choice, and no one else would get hurt. This is contrasted with Finn's all-or-nothing's "come-with-me-to-the-Outer-Rim-or-stay-here-and-never-see-me-again/maybe-die" and "I-will-literally-lie-to-risk-the-lives-of-millions-on-the-off-chance-I-can-save-my-friend".
Rather obvious "I'm calling upon the force in order to be you" face
Then, when Rey is very obviously telegraphing her intent to use the force to beat him, Kylo still trusts her choice. He has a good long while to realize, "Oh, this is going South for me," during which he could have easily pushed her off the stinking cliff. But he does not. [ Agency/Suffering for the Protagonist]
Now, the fight does continue; Kylo is not totally suicidal. But he remains fighting as he has--not throwing everything at her, not making direct strikes, not using the force in tricky ways, and then, when she knocks him down, still nothing. He doesn't lift a hand up, doesn't reach out to the force; he stays there, waiting to see what she will do. [Agency/Respect/Suffering for the Protagonist].
Then they are separated by a chasm, and that's the last we see of Kylo.

[Something else I noticed while watching the duel scenes over-and-over for this....Kylo broadcasts his pain differently when he fights Finn and when he fights Rey. When he's injured while fighting Finn, he's relatively quiet and turns away to react. But when Rey injures him, he stays facing her and is a lot louder with his pain noises--more communicative over all. I think it fits with how their relationships are shown; he wants to seem scary to Finn, but he wants understanding between himself and Rey. It could also be that he thinks Rey is a better fighter than Finn and therefore doesn't want to risk turning his back on her....and that's cool, too, because it shows he respects her abilities and lethality.]
Conclusion
Kylo Ren fits the pattern of "Bad Guy in a love triangle" in all the ways. There are the dark motivations that are more than they seem. There's the Kidnapping™ and subsequent honesty and Confession. There's the out-of-character soothing and caring for Rey's well-being, both at present and for the future. There's the risk taken to himself while trusting her (mentally and physically). There's the offer of improving--rather than removing--Rey's agency. There's the possibility of a rivalry. 
The only thing missing is a statement of romantic interest, and that's what makes this patterning in the story so interesting. Why put all this into a story that isn't a romance? I don't know, but I'm enjoying this hidden layer. 

[Thanks for reading, and I hope to see you next time when we talk about Rey as the Protagonist! A shout out to Mark for reviewing this despite the distraction that is the size of Adam Driver's nose; thank you!]


4 comments:

  1. A couple things I really disagree with-
    You’re describing “Bad Guy’ attributes that apply almost exclusively to Kylo Ren. You describe Bad Guys as “honest” and “open”, refusing to “physically harm the heroine” and “ensur[ing] her safety”. THESE ARE NOT BAD GUY ATTRIBUTES. A bad guy attribute is being bad. What I think you’re trying to describe is an antihero. Or you’re trying to manipulate your reading audience. Who knows!

    It makes me really uncomfortable that you’re describing kidnapping positively, as well. You’re describing it as a situation where the heroine and BG can be honest with each other. What you’re missing here is that by kidnapping the heroine, the BG is robbing her of her agency and autonomy in the most obvious way possible (The story of Hades and Persephone, which you use as an example, is most commonly known as “The Rape of Persephone”, BY THE WAY). “BG controls the space, but not the person”? Are you kidding? You spent your last blog post railing against Finn for somehow violating Rey’s consent but you present a kidnapping as a nice way for BG and heroine to get to know each other. You tried to cover your ass by saying fictional kidnapping “should not be treated as the equivalent of real-world kidnap”, but why not? What should it be treated as?

    Kylo does not have a sad backstory. Nope nope nope. There is 0 canon evidence for Leia and Han being anything more or less than normal, loving parents. It’s very clear from their dialogue that his fall to the dark was a catastrophic event for them, but despite that they still love and are ready to forgive him. Additionally, you know which characters for sure had bad childhoods? Rey and Finn. You know which characters are brave, kind, and selfless? Rey and Finn. Even if Kylo had had the worst parents ever (which he didn’t) a bad upbringing is no excuse for his actions.
    Oh my god are you really romanticising him bridal-carrying her? He’s just made her unconscious with the Force and is now carrying her back to his ship. AGAIN, no consent, no agency, no autonomy. You’re calling yourself a feminist but you don’t see any problems here????

    “When Rey wakes up, there's no panic, no anger, not even really surprise.” Uh, did you miss the “bang” as she shot awake and the very obvious fear in her voice when she asked where she was?

    “Kylo is telling Rey, "I'm not so bad. I'm not going to hurt you. I feel what you feel, and I understand"”.... Um. I’m pretty sure he was trying to manipulate her to get the information he needed out of her. Additionally, it’s very clear that the mind-invasion techniques he uses on her are very painful- the script describes her as being “in agony”. AGAIN- she’s restrained, he’s standing over her, he’s using his powers to hurt her. All very obviously rape-y things that you seem to be fine with.
    “The only thing that's really changed is Finn's circumstance. Before, he was by himself. Now, he is with Rey. That's why Kylo is mad. Finn is where he wants to be.” im pretty sure that face is bc chewie just shot him lol

    “The GG is manipulative when it comes to the Protagonist and her pain, "I will cause you pain if you don't do what I want."” Should i even bother rebutting this

    To conclude-“Why put all this into a story that isn't a romance?” The answer is that you’re reaching so hard over Finn’s head to try and justify a relationship mostly based off things you invented between a heroic woman and the evil, harmful man she despises.

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    1. Hi, Jaina
      I'm not trying to manipulate my readers or describe an anti-hero. I'm describing the "Bad Guy" character as he shows up in Love Triangles (ie: What this post is all about). This character is typically called "The Bad Boy", but I like the sound of "guy" better. This pattern applies to pretty much EVERY Bad Guy who is in a love triangle, not just Kylo Ren. I wrote an earlier post about this where I bring in more of this type of character.

      I'm not describing kidnapping positively at all. You obviously read the section about this but chose to ignore it(?) It shouldn't be treated as real world kidnap because it isn't. It should be treated as a literary trope because it IS. And, this trope is used to provide a platform of honesty between two characters who otherwise would not meet. Did I invent this trope? No. Don't like it? Get mad at thousands of years of writers. Also, on the matter of "The Rape of Persephone", this comes from "raptus", which means "to seize" (or, "rapture"). In the original context, it's the "seizing" of Persephone. Only later did the word change and gain the new meaning of rape/sexual assault. In the original poems/myth (the oldest version we can find, anyway), it's clear sexual assault did not take place and that Persephone CHOSE to stay in the Underworld. Ergo, it's exactly as I wrote--a kidnapping where no physical harm comes to the heroine. This is not something I write about lightly "BY THE WAY", and perhaps you should not, either.
      In comparing Finn to Kylo, I "rail" on Finn because he is dishonest. Judging Kylo on the same scale, he IS honest. I highlight Finn's dishonesty and Kylo's honesty because these are oft-overlooked traits. Everyone KNOWS Finn is "good" and Kylo is "bad", but there's more to them than just that.

      We can't really speculate too much on Kylo's past because there isn't much we know. One can't say "it wasn't sad at all", because there is no evidence for that. We know Han was disengaged and that Leia "lost" her son when she "sent him away". Their willingness to forgive him in itself implies there's more at work than he woke up one morning and decided to be evil. Sending a child away is not "normal, kind, and loving". Allowing your child to be "seduced" to the dark side by some creepy old guy is not "normal, kind, and loving".
      Simplifying Rey and Finn as "brave, kind, and selfless" is also a mistake. Was Finn brave when he lied to Rey about his background? No, he was afraid. Was Rey kind when she knocked Finn to the ground and allowed BB-8 to zap him? Was Finn selfless when he wanted to leave for the Outer Rim? Was Rey selfless when she told BB-8 to get lost? Were either of them kind or selfless when they struck first against the various people in the First Order? They're not just fluffy bunnies; they're rounded characters, and their backgrounds DO AFFECT THEM. Now, is Kylo more evil than them? Yeah. Duh. The point of his background is for explanation, not excuse. Yes, he could have gone another way, but he didn't turn bad for no reason.
      [end part I]

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    2. Part II
      With the bridal carry, again, don't get mad at me; get mad at the trope/film writers/director. This falls under the Kidnapping(TM) being A) NOT REAL LIFE B) Used to move the story forward. I don't "call" myself a feminist; I am one, and, again, IT'S A STORY. I'm familiar with tropes; not for one second watching this film was I afraid something "bad" was going to happen to Rey after Kylo kidnapped her. Kidnapping in the real world is bad because it's usually followed by sexual assault/murder. This story-kidnapping is followed by character development and honesty. The kidnapping is also what turns Rey on to the Force, so, at the end of it all, yeah, I'm pretty alright with it. Ultimately, Rey was not harmed; she scared Kylo off, AND her Force powers were awakened. Had she not been kidnapped, none of these things would have happened; our story would have been much more boring, and Rey would be stuck with just her staff-skills. Obviously, this DOES NOT APPLY to the real world, because this is not how it goes in the real world. Story world plays by different rules.

      Waking up suddenly is not necessarily a sign of fear, especially if one has been knocked out by artificial means. It's a sign of not being knocked out anymore. I suppose tone is a matter of personal interpretation.

      Could be. But he also didn't need to waste time manipulating her when the Force was there the whole time. He didn't with Poe, after all. His goal was not to hurt her; it was to gain information. A small distinction, but important. I'm not a person who likes to play fast and loose with the term "rape-y", and this comparison fails in-universe, as well. Kylo was not using the Force to torture her; he was using it to read her mind. Force mind-control/mind reading only hurts when people fight it, as Rey was doing. If all mind-control/reading is rape, then Rey is a rapist, too. For that matter, so is Obi-Wan Kenobi, and every other Jedi we've seen use this trick. Did Maz rape Rey when she read her "eyes" on Takodana? She didn't ask Rey if she could. She told Rey information Rey obviously didn't want to know, and Rey was upset. Was it "rape"? No. Minimizing rape in this manner is harmful to people (in the real world) who (actually) experience (actual--not metaphorical) rape.

      Mmm. If that was the reason, he would have made the face immediately after being shot, and/or Chewie's face would have been contrasted with Kylo's instead of Finn's. Instead, the film directly connects Finn looking at Kylo and Kylo SEEING Finn to his anger. Art is deliberate. "lol"

      As far as the manipulation, I don't know--can you? Is that not what Finn did? "You will never see me again if you don't do what I want" is rather manipulative, no? Would Rey not feel pain if Finn left? GG characters use this because they have the relationship-oomph to make it work. They can presume on the protagonist's feelings because there's actually something there. I suppose I should have clarified "emotional pain", but it should be contextually apparent.
      [end part II]

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    3. To conclude: I'm pointing out an interesting pattern that appears against-type in an action movie. The answer to "why bother using this pattern?" will not become apparent until it's all over. If there's a romance, then the pattern is to set it up. If there's no romance, maybe it's to add another layer to the characters or to the story. There's no one answer.
      It's important to remember that "stories are not real life", "art is deliberate", and, "explaining a pattern is not the same as supporting what the pattern contains".
      As far as "reaching over Finn's head", my intention is not to paint Finn as bad or Kylo as good. It's to highlight aspects of them commonly ignored by the masses who want a more simplified story. Finn lies. Does that make him bad? Eh, not really. But he's still a liar. The same goes for Kylo. He has a reason for being bad. Does that mean he's good? No. But it means he's not bad for no reason.
      As far as Rey despising Kylo; duh. I didn't talk about that here because this post is about Kylo, not Rey. Also, it's not a love triangle because Rey likes both guys; it's a love triangle because both guys are interested in her. It IS a sexist pattern, but that doesn't mean the pattern does not exist.
      Thanks for commenting!

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